Requiem/Alchemy

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Probably doesn't need saying, but as with everything on this wiki this page is created with ref hat firmly OFF.

What is an alchemist? What do they do? What can they do? What sort of people play one?

One of the major likes I have heard discussed by alchemist players is the amount of fiddling and playing about with the system in order to get the most out of it. I don't know if that same level and type of fiddling-about can be kept by an accessible system which is administered by human beings rather than by computer. I'd like to replace it with a different type of fiddling-about that doesn't massively disadvantage people who don't use it and isn't quite so opaque from the outside. Something more complicated than spells or miracles, but not so complicated that your average ref with hard copies of your character sheet in one hand and your downtime in the other (i.e. can't use pen and paper, calculator or computer) can't work out whether your downtime is correct. Ideally I'd like it to self-administer for the most part, with herb and basic potion prices public on the website. But I'd also like to have potions that are unique and special to an alchemist, because that feels evocative and effective to me.

Alchemists make a fair number each of a very small selection of potions, which they sell or give to other PCs who use them either in PvP? to kill people or on linears to prevent themselves dying. They are capable of churning out staggering amounts of antivenoms, reasonable amounts of healing of which a rational PC carries twice as much as they need due to the separation of potions and salves, small amounts of either incredibly potent instant-death or incredibly weak almost-pointless poisons, and small amounts of interesting high-level effect potions. I would like to make the number of poisons and antivenoms one can make equivalent, and to make even low-level poisons effective and nasty. I would like to make alchemical healing cheap as chips, while still allowing an alchemist to finance the things they don't charge for by making and selling potions. I would like to give all the buffs to alchemy except those that really don't make sense.

People also like herbs, so herbs stay. Possibly they are joined by other sorts of simple - mineral ones, etc - possibly you can go "Okay, I have this cool thing / spell / miracle / holy item / church / demon / fairy, can I use it to aid in the creation of this Level Foo potion?" and have an interesting and fun answer. Actually, that's really cool. I'll see if I can't incorporate that one.

This leads away from my ridiculously complex thoughts on an Elder Scrolls-a-like alchemy system. But so what, when we can create something cool elsewhere?

Fundamentally, I want to make an alchemy system that makes me want to play an alchemist. I think into things, I like playing support characters, I do creative downtime, I don't mind doing politics or planning in advance. But I also want to be able to be spontaneous and creative and powerful in uptime.

So. The basic idea of the current system goes something along the lines of:

Okay, the immediate thing that comes to mind here is Dungeons and Dragons, where wizards prepare spells in downtime and spend them in uptime; they typically know many many more spells than they can prepare at any given level, and learning these spells is XP free but carries a money cost. Spells have a base level, and the wizard can with XP learn additional power boosts and effects that they can put onto any spell; doing this raises its level. Also, these wizards can do basically nothing but prepare and cast these spells.

I think we can adapt this quite nicely. There are a bunch of base potions, with more being researchable, that cost money but not XP to learn how to make. Alchemists could have a number of slots of different levels, these being based on their Alchemy level or another such skill - possibly each slot is bought as a separate skill, or something - and then potions have a base level. Skills can be learnt to add to the effect of a potion, either in duration or in power or in volume of potions made, and the application of these to the potion will raise the level of slot needed to make it.

We then need more in the class, because the above costs about 25 to 30 xp max assuming we're handing out one additional effect a level. I think we need some sort of transmuting jiggerypokery, recognise potion, herb-finding jiggerypokery, and possibly some sort of lifestyle jiggerypokery (through your scientific and healthy method of living, you are *this*...) - maybe alchemists get a Hits Skill that isn't Health or Fitness or Fortitude and stacks with them (but only one) meaning that dwarven alchemists and warrior-alchemists are the win.

PTU mechanic ideas

So. What is a sane number of potions for an alchemist to create in a week? How should this scale with level?

Idea 1 would depart from the D&Dish line of enquiry, and make all your potion slots equal in capacity; you may create 3 potions just for being an alchemist, plus one per level of $foo you have ($foo requires Alchemy), and they may be of a level equal to or less than the level of $bar (which may be the same as $foo, I don't yet know, but requires Alchemy) you have, the total level of a potion being made up of [base effect, which is not a skill] + [optional powerups applied to potion, which are skills]. To put it another way, this idea makes a high-level alchemist's PTU worth more without giving them that many extra per level. This idea is simple, but it may be too simple for people. It provides fewer, but more powerful potions than Idea 2.

In Idea 2, which draws from D&D and the spell card systems, potion slots are not created equal; you buy $baz, which has a little table explaining how many slots of what level you get at each level of $baz. A potion slot of a certain level can hold a potion of its level or lower, the total level of a potion being made up of [base effect, which is not a skill] + [optional powerups applied to potion, which are skills]. The progression could go something like: 

 2
 2 1
 3 2
 3 2 1
 4 3 2 
 4 3 2 1
 5 4 3 2
 5 4 3 2 1

Each level of $baz gaining either a slot of a new level or an additional slot of each level they currently possess. This makes alchemy progression nontrivial to analyze, which I believe is an advantage. We could try 

 2
 2 1
 2 2 1
 3 2 2 1
 3 2 2 2 1
 3 3 2 2 2 1
 4 3 3 2 2 2 1
 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1

if people want a finer-grained level system, but that gives more potion slots to higher level alchemists and means we must think up more effect levels. This idea provides more variety of potions, but of course that can be a bad thing - we would really rely upon a functional and well-supported potion coding system.

Potion coding system ideas

We could write a code on the potion bottle in alcohol-soluble pen, and just store a list of codes and effects; a one-letter 3-digit code, with each alchemist being assigned a first letter, would allow for 999 potions per alchemist and 26 alchemists. Advantage: easy on, fairly easy off if we get hold of some alcohol wipes and suitable pens. Disadvantage: requires a ref for most applications, requires alchemists to state what they're making and refs to do more than wave it through.

Additional ref faff if the alchemist in question isn't around, and no-one wants to stop and look up a list of numbers. Also, how do you indicate when the potion has been used? --Valtiel

We could use the current system slightly adapted, whereby the bottle contains a piece of card tri-folded lengthwise. First fold contains what sort of potion it is, which anyone who can recognise any potion can notice. Inside contains the effect. Advantage: self-administering, no central list of potions required. Disadvantage: the card can get stuck in the bottle, requiring tweezers.

I like this one. We just need the right kind of bottle. Having the card IN the bottle works best, because then you can have an IC note on the outside of the bottle as well, and you can just take the card out and throw it away when the potion is used up. --Valtiel

We could buy a laminator and laminate potion cards. *shudder* Advantage: no central list of potions required, nothing goes in the bottle. Disadvantage: looks horribly OOC, more so than sticking something on the bottle or writing on it, and takes real time and effort to make.

Yuck.' --Valtiel

We could make the potions system really really simple and use different coloured liquids for each potion; this is what I'd do if alchemists didn't exist. Red for healing potion, blue for extra-healing potion, green for antidote, black for poison, ask everyone if they're allergic to food colouring...

I like fancy potion effects which wouldn't be covered by this, and it does kind of mean that everyone gets "recognised potion" for free simply because they learn that red potions always heal you. --Valtiel

Potion effect brainstorming /Potions
Healing salves, which ought to work on any location
Healing potions, like the Rockrose Healing Potions in effect
Natural armour, maybe? Multiple applications can't stack.
Acid (unnatural plus to weapon physical damage, thus stacks with magic weapon or spirit weapon skills (the latter only if you have permission to touch, obviously))
Poison (VENOM N == you are poisoned by a level N poison, we know what it does and have a little sequence of symptoms for you, it can be antivenomed by a level N or greater antivenom but it does no mechanical damage)
Antivenom, then - PURGE VENOM N.
Strength (natural plus to damage done by wielder, therefore HIGH in level - I'd balance this at 5 or 6)
Speed (that is, DAC in a can, let's say level 3 for a point and multiple applications don't stack?)
Etherealness (become resistant to physical damage)
Ingestive Weird Shit (love, madness, etc)
Truth Potion (the way I see this working is like the one working truth serum they ever actually made IRL - the subject goes unconscious, then regains consciousness and babbles but if asked questions cannot resist giving true answers, the subject then DIES - so we're talking about an ingestive poison with the side effect of being a potion of truth)
Sleep (DROP by mouth, probably uses ingestive poison system; not applicable to blades)
Putting Sleep effect on a blade would have to be level 7 as the call is DROP.
Non-detection (you do not respond to DETECT Race calls) is kinda in there already, do we want to keep?
Ethereal Blade or something (blade does THROUGH damage) - would have to not stack with acids / poisons and be moderately high level, like 3 or 4

We could even get rid of the Ns on the poison and antivenom, and just have better poisons acting faster or being nastier, or having residual effects even if purged.

All these work equally well as 5-application tubs of gel that only an alchemist can use, except maybe the ingestive poisons and weird-shit thingies.

Stuff to add to potions - brainstorming

Efficient production - use two slots, produce three potions Incorporate non-alchemical effect into potion - using a flangey object or known spell / miracle to modify the effects of a potion brewed in its presence

Let's have two variables you can increase in potions, called (say) Potency and Concentration. Both have a 4-level scale. There can then be a skill to increase these at the cost of increasing the level of the potion.

What do alchemists currently lack? How do we solve this?

Draft set of alchemical rules. Comments below further line.

In the below I use 'simple' rather than 'herb' as it sounds better.

Draft rules:

Alchemy has just become a science. As such, while there is now a unified theory there are holes at the edges. New discoveries are being made all the time.

'Potion' is a generic term for all alchemical preparations; many alchemical preparations are in fact gels or oils or powders.

Alchemists have 'potion slots' which replace PTU; these are ranked 1 - 8, with 1 requiring the least skill and 8 requiring the most. A potion has a rank, which is made up of a base rank (which may be zero or negative) and additions, of which the commonly known ones are 'increased concentration' which makes the effect stronger and 'increased potency' which makes the effect more widely applicable. A potion may be created in a slot of its total rank or higher. Potion ranks are known IC, but potion slots are an abstraction.

Base potions require a certain alchemical simple to create; increasing the potency of a potion requires one of a set of simples depending how far you wish to increase it; 'Conditioned Synthesis' below allows you to add one or more environmental conditions to a potion which may have further effects. Thus a potion requires at least one simple, usually two, and one skill may be used to increase this number. Potions require no money to create.

Potions dry up after one week out of controlled lab conditions. Maintaining a potion in controlled lab conditions requires a potion slot of its rank or higher, but you *are* allowed to maintain potions you cannot create. It is possible to sell potion slots to the Alchemists' Guild for low prices; they will be used to maintain other people's potions. Similarly it is possible to buy low level potion slots from the Alchemists' Guild for slightly higher prices and use them to maintain your potions if you don't mind other people knowing what potions you have.

A potion that has dried up may be trivially separated into its component simples by any trained alchemist; it may be rescued and turned back into a working potion by any alchemist who could have created the original potion. Conditioned Synthesis is an exception; the simples obtained by allowing a Conditioned potion to dry up may be used by any alchemist, and most of them cannot be obtained in any other fashion.

Potions are physrepped by an item of some sort (traditionally a bottle) with a folded piece of card attached (traditionally inside). To use a potion, you physrep the appropriate action, open and read the potion card. To identify a potion, you call RECOGNISE ALCHEMICAL, physrep the appropriate action, open and read the potion card before replacing it. If you read the potion card without calling RECOGNISE ALCHEMICAL you are considered to have used the potion. The idea is that people creating potions provide at least their own potion cards, preferably their own potion physreps, though that may not end up working.

An alchemist may create any potion they have a recipe for, as long as they have the potion slot available; the Alchemists' Guild has recipes for all standard potions. Nonstandard potion recipes may be researched by any alchemist; they require a total investment of 15 potion slots of sufficient rank to create them, over a period at least two weeks (that is, an investment of 7 one week and 8 the next would work), and the research produces one usable potion and up to 14 bottles of tarry black gunk of strange effect. Alchemists may cooperate on potion research, and in fact are encouraged to do so given how hard it is.

There are two sorts of potion that can be applied to weapons - preparations and blade venoms. A preparation may be applied without the Use Blade Venom skill, and typically acts upon the weapon to provide it with some effect. A blade venom requires a special skill to apply, and typically allows the next blow to add VENOM N to the damage call. VENOM N now reads: "You have been seriously poisoned and feel bad. PURGE N will remove this, as will PURGE VENOM. See a ref."

Transmuting - the modification of the elemental balance of an item such that its base material changes - has a working theoretical framework but little in the way of concrete results. I'm quite tempted to have Transmuting as a free-text skill like Ritual Magic, but I'm not sure about that.

/Potions

Draft skill tree:

2
2 1
2 2 1
2 2 2 1
3 2 2 2 1
3 3 2 2 2 1
3 3 3 2 2 2 1
4 3 3 3 2 2 2 1

Currently 46 xp per level, not counting Alchemical Training, First Aid, Literacy, Numeracy, a race, Alchemical Medicine or Poison Use. One or two more major skills? --R

So, with respect to this tree, what are the level, concentration, and potency of a potion? Are potion recipes acquired for no XP, in exchange for roleplay (and probably currency), or do they eat XP? For filling up levels, might it be desirable to provide ten or so levels of each skill, and encourage double-buying? It works for mages. --NT
Roleplay and currency rather than xp. The base level of a potion is a stat what the potion has. The concentration starts at 1 and increases to 4, and determines one variable about that potion - for a blade preparation, how many blows it lasts for, for a poison, possibly its purge level (if we have poison levels), for an effect potion, its duration. The potency is like the concentration, but determines another variable - how much damage the blade preparation does, what the poison does to its victim, how powerful the effect of the effect potion is, etc. Some might have one but not the other, or something. Dunno. Still deep in think. --Requiem
Giving potion recipes for "free" feels a bit harsh to the other casting classes, who need to spend XP and, in the case of mages, money and roleplay as well. Then again, as potion recipes give their levelled-up versions for free with Alchemical Theory anyway, it might be interesting to have it as the opposite of a priest from this point of view. The difficulty and cost of acquiring recipes would need to be quite high, though. --NT
The point was to have it feel a bit like a D&D wizard to the mage's sorcerer - more individual powers and more ways to frobble them about, but much less spontaneous and flexible, mostly focused on versatility over raw power, but capable of such power with sufficient preparation. Traditionally we'd shove all the lore skills in here as well - possibly nonmagical or alchemical things to allow communication with objects or something? --R

re CREATE TALISMAN:

I'm afraid I think this is a bit too far outside the box; alchemy shouldn't be supernatural, I think, and I don't think this works as a non-supernatural skill. This would be a cool skill if it had an Elemental theory and/or skill prerequisite too, though. --Jacob
It was you that was asking for supernatural alchemy, earlier... This was my idea for what transmuting could do. Where I'm saying 'charged item' I am envisaging something that takes fuel. --R

re: I'm quite tempted to have Transmuting as a free-text skill like Ritual Magic, but I'm not sure about that.

My gut feeling is that "Experimental Synthesis" and "Mass synthesis/Copious? synthesis" are grossly overpowered, in that everyone will take them and use one or the other for every potion slot. --Tristan

I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I agree exactly - potency / concentration increases are supposedly very useful, though maybe they need to be made cheaper. The idea was that pure alchemists should have more potions and more options on those potions, but those options do not come by having a higher level of a single skill (I dislike the encouragement of double buying). Copious Synthesis... hmm... your fourth level alchemist can spec for level 1 and 2 healing potions, and create something like 25 of them, but compared to creating say six level 1 healing gels (30 uses of 2 hit locational heal, using Mass on your level 2 slots and nothing on the level 1 ones) and then using the level 3 and 4 slots for a few powered-up gels / potions, a level 6 ace-in-the-hole or maybe a transmuted weapon or armour with an ability or two, the pure healing-potion vending machine is less interesting to play. Also, I suspect that one can put the brakes on Copious Synthesis by requiring a herb for each of those 25 level 1 slots the alchemist's just created with Copious / Mass spamming, needing the output of three herb collectors of equivalent level where they'd need just one if they didn't use that Copious. I need to properly write a herb system. --R

I'm not convinced by the "synthesis" abilities. I think gel synthesis and delay synthesis - abilities that let you do different things - are cool, but don't benefit from being linked. I don't think the others add anything to the Alchemist Experience, though. They make it slightly harder to optimise an alchemist, but don't do much to make it easier to specialise or generalise - I don't think they're at all an efficient use of complexity coupons. --Jacob

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Last edited January 3, 2007 5:05 pm by Jacob (diff)
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