Subterfuge*Compress Streetfighter to give unnatural Single Through at level 5 Reasoning: Streetfighter sucks :All of my points from where this exact issue was raised at last year's AGM and voted down still stand. --TimB ::*looks at last year's discussion* What I really hate about AGMs is that you have to wait another year to try Motion v2, so it's hard to respond to criticism and produce a patch that is a good compromise. It's pretty antithetical to good game design. Players are more worried about something ending up overpowered than remaining underpowered. As you have to wait a year or call an EGm to scrap a rules change, there's no opportunity to playtest or see how it goes as the game runs, everything has to run on predictions and assumptions. I'd agree that a major issue with THROUGH is that it's only good against things with more armour than body hits, and that a usual name for most of these is "PCs". However, unless you can finish off a target in its entirety with THROUGH, it's no better than normal damage. So IMO Subterfuge should be able to have enough THROUGH to kill something they backstabbed, but not to just demolish any target with THROUGH by 36" sword. Otherwise, Backstab becomes the thing you take when you have THROUGH by magical, archery or spiritual means as well. There is also I think an argument to be made that more monsters should have armour as opposed to simple body hits, because nobody ever uses THROUGH by bow when they could have STRIKEDOWN and often +1 degree on that. But that's not an AGM so much as a statting decision for what to send on linears. --Jim :::If you have just implied that the hellish horror of AGM lead up and AGM should happen more often I have only one thing to say. "KILL THAT IDEA WITH FIRE". Getting a functional and complete motion before the AGM is the least painful route. :::If you publicise your desire to experiment with things ahead of time many rules changes can be played with at Weapons Practices like how many of the proposed changes to the brawling rules were experimented with. (May contain high degrees of physiological trauma regarding AGMs and Rules Changes)--Malselene ::::I believe Jim is complaining about the convention that something which fails at an AGM is left alone for a year or so. --Tea :::::Actually, I didn't know about the convention when I typed that, but the point's the same. I realise that you can test at Weapons Practice, yes. It's still hard to get a functional motion if you only get good feedback on opposition after it's too late to change the wording. This leads to several small motions in the hope that at least some pass, rather than an integrated plan. Streetfighter last year was a good example, because not passing a Streetfighter upgrade while also linking backstab to Streetfighter has slightly backfired. It's made Subterfuge combat a little worse as you are forced to buy the levels in weapons like 42" swords for a Backstabby knife PC. It's not a huge deal, just a few XP, but it does go to show. :::::TT has been built on a lot of small incremental changes without any defining plan, because AGM format leads to polarisation over an idea, not consensus. You can't say "Yeah, you are right, this is broken" and put the idea in again with some suggested changes, unless you wait a year or more. I reckon this sort of discussion page is a step in the right direction though. --Jim ::::::This is not an AGM discussion page, it is nothing to do with the AGM. it is my personal wishlist. I reserve every right to just completely ignore any point someone makes on here if I think they're wrong. I started it as an aid to my memory, not somewhere to hold debates. :) --Tea :::On the subject of archery, through by bow is jsut worse even when the opponents have armour. Unless it instadrops them it leaves them upright and active. --Tea I think level 5 is too low. I'd put it at level 6. Streetfighter could also be made better by just doing something more interesting than the bastardsword use at levels 5 and 6. Streetfighter also isn't supposed to be as good as melee. If you want to be good in a straight up fight, probably play a warrior. *Make backstab do non-through damage, and give streetfighter doubles. ::Personal feeling: bland and uninteresting, homogenises the system. Yes, it's easier to balance, but I don't think it's worth it. --MorkaisChosen :::Mm, fair. the advantages are much easier to balance, makes the "subterfugers slaughter mages" problem more minimal, and also turns subterfuge into the straight up DPS class quite nicely --Tea ::::Notably more interesting combined with Warrior doing SINGLE at most and getting Disarm, as discussed above. --MC :::::I wouldn't enjoy any of that speaking as a person who has extensively played subterfugers with backstab. It's boring, it's another 'streetfighters should be as good/better than warriors' thing which I'm not keen on and makes no sense to me, and the warriors stuck on single could dual class and buy streetfighter. As for the non-through damage, that could be ok as an option if you still get through but I think making through by daggers more accessible and keeping backstab as through is more interesting and hopefully fun without being utterly deadly if it's worth doing anything at all. --dp *Or Tea/BackstabReset? |
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*Add "lines plus ears" to the elemental elf physrep options, so that full face snazz isn't required. Appropriately coloured lines/patterns on all visible skin is already in the elemental human physrep, and ears to distinguish is already how we do normal humans vs true elves. *Stabsafes in |
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*Fix camouflage entirely: hiding becomes quicker, hiding acceleration goes away, ability to sprint goes away, ability to move slowly becomes basic, ability to ambush becomes basic, skill determines how long you can camo for --Tea |
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*See /CamoReset? |
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