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(A lot of this is negative towards previous 3YGBs. This is because I am focusing on the bits that *didn't* work in order to make them better. This is not a personal attack on anyone, I'm sorry if it feels like it is, and please do talk to me about problems you have with the article rather than assume I hate you.)

Okay, so lets start off with "Before" and "After".

Before, the 3YGB was a two day linear. The PCs were PCs, and the Monster Crew got given NPC roles and monster roles, went out into the world, fought/infodumped/entertained. Lather, rince, sleep, rince, lather, repeat.

After, the 3YGB was more a world wide game. The PCs were PCs, everyone else chose or were allocated a "faction" and we put everyone in a field where there was a plot. There were mechanics for people coming in as monsters occasionally.

After exists because a two day linear is great for the PCs, but slightly unsatisfying to be a permanent monster crew for some playing styles, and getting a long term NPC you can sink your teeth into is a fun thing, and allows you to try things you haven't played before and wouldn't really like to do in the normal TT universe. It's also different to any other linear, partly because the PC glow is turned down. Just because you see a new person in a white robe, does not mean they're the healing encounter.

It's bad for PCs, though. The lack of PC Glow means getting the PCs engaged with the plot is a lot harder, the "NPCs" tend to solve the plot, and the very concept of having PCs at all is diluted. I am not aware of any PCs who have 3YGBed and regretted "wasting" their characters on this, but I can't help but feel that taking the PCs out of the the 3YGB is something we should do deliberately rather than accidentally, if we do it at all.

I like the "After" style of 3YGBs a lot.

Well, I've never played one.

I "helped" organise the first "After" one (Little to do with plot or setup, but helped ran the game on the weekend) and acted purely as ref-desk on the other. I like doing this, because a) I get to know everything that's going on, and that is something that I enjoy, b) I like herding people, and c) It's useful. I like being useful. I did one "Before" 3YGB - my first year of TT - and wasn't really enamoured of the concept of being a rotating series of entites I didn't care about.

However, the current Faction + Environment didn't work very well for the last 3YGB from the perspective of being a Grand Last Adventure For The PCs. Each part was good, in that it was Grand in scope, that it was a "Last Adventure For The PCs" for all of them (TPK!), but it wasn't an "Adventure ... For The PCs" (None of them were really invested in actually solving the plot. It was just a plot there to be solved. There may be some power to scrounge, some honour to die for, but the mage plot was pretty much a tube between them and that). The Environment went around solving their plot very effectivly, and the PCs badmouthed each other to the NPCs, who then didn't bring them in to their own goals.

So, the PCs either need to work together, or to at the very least not indirectly oppose each other. I think direct opposition might work better, because this supplies Conflict.

Also, the PCs need to be Required. If the end thing can go ahead without the PCs involvement, it's more likely to do so.

But I think the key thing is that the story needs to be built around the party, or the party needs to be activly recruited to the story. Having "These people want to 3YGB" and "This is the 3YGB Plot, you can't know it" would be better as "These people want to 3YGB with this 3YGB Plot. You may not know the end".

This is hard to engineer.

I have to say I agree with all of the above. --Taxellor

Attempts to provide PC Glow have (to my mind) revolved around giving them more ability to affect the outcome. Since this wasn't accompanied by a great deal more interest in doing so, it relied on the NPCs knowing this, and drawing them in. This didn't, to my mind, succeed as well as it ought. Also, well, I reckon substantial credit and/or blame for the first 'After' should head my way, and I reckon it was an improvement in experience for most of the players, but I certainly don't see it as the be-all, end-all, so I'm happy to see people trying to top it. I may yet become involved myself. --I

Since this does now seem to be being discussed here, I feel it worth pointing out the other proposal raised when it was discussed briefly on IRC - move to the Durham style of 3ygb, where they simly did away with PC involvement entirely and made it a one-off event in the canon. They have loads of fun with it. There are definitely some downsides to this route, but it does apparently work extremely well. -TheKremlin

That's roughly what I was referring to obliquely with the "taking the PCs out of the the 3YGB is something we should do deliberately" comment. Personally, I like them as a concept, and possibly we might want to try one as an over-the-summer one-day thing --Aq

We've done similar things with varying degrees of success before - the AVG and New Forest events... --ChessyPig

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